No. You never have to declare how much you earn, give or anything else. The 'enouragement' to give or give more is ever present.
Max
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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15
Before you get baptised do you have to declare how much....
by farmer inmoney you are going to donate to jw?????
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Major US / UK Difference. Caution, Possible Flame.
by Englishman in.
well, our lorries are different to your trucks.. ours are flat fronted, yours have a bonnet.. ours are taller, yours are wider.. ours go like sh*t off a shovel, your kenworths couldn't pull a greased kitten out of bed.
englishman.
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Max Divergent
In northern Australia we'd call all those little things CARS, or TONKA TRUCKS... I have these 55m Road Trains go past my house all day long... the fuel trucks are four standard trailers long... Try passing one of these while it's doing 100km/h...
Max
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BOE Letters
by Perry inaround 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.
or, something to that effect.
does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.
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Max Divergent
To avoid doubt, the '72 OKM can apply to ANY SIN, including carnel GROSS SIN (a DF offence for which a JC is required) - all sin is sin is sin and is treated the same before God....
BUT, concealment of Gross Sin is a Gross Sin too, and that is current sin right up the the day of confession, so OKM has no application as the guy is a current gross sinner.
So, for practical purposes it's mostly the sinning of the nature for which the council of an elder or two will suffice, except where the sinner is ignorant of the nature of his sin being a Gross Sin, such as where it's only defined as a sin in a book he has no access to - like Flock. A rare occurance but it does happen, especially with pornia.
Max - who feels like going out for a gross sin after talking about it so much...
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BOE Letters
by Perry inaround 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.
or, something to that effect.
does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.
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Max Divergent
Perry - it was an OKM in about '72 as HS said. I'd guess that a BOE of the sort you mention would very likley be on the authority of that OKM. It is unlikley (but might happen) that a BOE would have 'new light', more likley a new shade on an old lamp.
As to 1), there is more specific detail on certian DF offences in the Flock book (and maybe letters etc) than in the public materials. The common one that gets quoted often is the more explicit description of pornia in Flock compared to the WT. 'Borderline cases' might be technically grey areas according to the WT, but are DF offences according to Flock. If a new elder reads Flock for the first time and has a guilt trip as a result of a 'grey area' indiscretion years ago (and has been a good boy since) that he now knows to be a DF offence and confesses, he need not be removed and reproved/DF as a result of this.
I'd suggest it's sensible and preserves some Christian charity and fairness. I'd just like the same charity extended to all JW, not just those who get an appointment. I seem to recall the discussion months ago. I think that's all it was, no big deal.
Max
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76
15th July WT ...Islam is the King of the North??
by caspian inif this has already been posted, i apologise for repeating it.
in the july wt, the writers have come up with the new theory that islam is the new king of the north.
i haven't seen the article yet, .
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Max Divergent
I remember it as being the Anglo-Americal dual world power, the UK and US. The 1958 book said the power balance would shift from the UK to the US before the end, and that's happened.
What might fit better with WT ideas is to make the US the last King of the North, the last one standing in the struggle of nations... the one Michael finally has to attack.
That shift (from free South to totalitarian North) could be either: 1) pinpointed on attacking ancient holy places under false pretences and in the face of the impotent condemnation of the rest of the world; or 2) could be foreshadowed as the ultimate end of the current Middle East/Terror/Iraq/Israel situation.
Presumably, the WTS might also say that the final battle starts against radical Isalm, but ends with the JW's, who also preach for theocratic rule to replace human government by way of Holy War.
That's just my speculation on the whirrings of the WTS collective hive... it'd give real immediacy and a collective threat close to home for JW's in the West. It'd trigger all sorts of fear reactions amongst the Bro's globally (it's put them on the 'wrong side' of the War on Terror, for one thing) and it could be dragged on for as long as the War on Terror and all other Middle East issues go on for... and that could be decades.
Then they just need a couple of creative paragraphs to link the commencement of this final Act in the Drama of Nations (I think they called it somthing like that...) with asupposed commencement of 'Armageddon' in 2004, being 1914 + 90 years - one modern life span. Then they overcome most of their chronology problems too.
Max - of the frustrated Watchtower writer class
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BOE Letters
by Perry inaround 18 months ago or so i thought i heard about one (body of elders letter) that counseled elders that if they had committed fonication, and it had been awhile, and if they felt that god had forgiven them, that it was not necessarily a mandate that they confess to their fellow elders nor step down.
or, something to that effect.
does anyone remember that one or where i can get a copy?.
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Max Divergent
BUT... these are the condiitons for the '72 article which has never been overuled (from memory):
1. The person must not have had access to WT info that their act was a sin (eg: it was only written in a BOE letter),
2. More than 3 years must have passed between sin and confession/discovery
3. An appointment by holy spirit (to elder or MS, and maybe to Reg Pio) must have occured between sin and the confession/discovery
I'm not sure if the person needs to show repententce or not because forgiveness is deemed to have been given by Jehovah Himself. The evidence of the forgiveness is Jehovah's approval on his appointment as an MS or elder. (NEAT SYSTEM?!?)
The grossness of the sin is not relevent. It was put there for the smoking cases of the 1970's, but it still has rare application.
Max
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15th July WT ...Islam is the King of the North??
by caspian inif this has already been posted, i apologise for repeating it.
in the july wt, the writers have come up with the new theory that islam is the new king of the north.
i haven't seen the article yet, .
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Max Divergent
But there is a truth to KoN v KoS....
It's 'freedom v tyrrany' or 'conservitives v liberals' or 'ying and yang' or 'the Left v the Right' or 'Labor v Capital' or 'Nice Dad v Strict Mom' or whatever you like to think of it as....
This tension is ever present and, IMO, the WTS just captures this in the context of Daniel and their own self-percieved position in the world.
Max
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Which Way Did You Choose To Leave The Organization?
by minimus infor me it was the slow, purposeful fade....and you?
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Max Divergent
Fast Fade... just stopped going. My deletion was announced then I went on a months vacation and just never, ever went near the place again.
When they visited, I stonewalled, played sick and they got the message.
Max
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Remember the 1961 green Bible?
by outbutnotdown in.
i know there are numerous examples of crazy, whacked out stuff that the wtbts taught that most of here now realize were just that...... crazy and whacked......... but do you know how insane some of the stuff in that original 1961 bible was?.
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Max Divergent
Anyone remember the red edition? It came out very briefly in the late '60's or early '70's. I only ever saw one, it was my uncle's. The cover was a little softer than the green, and the paper bunched up more. I think there was a brown one briefly too, another relitive had that one. (No, I'm not confused with the 'new bibles' in black and brown about 1980-82 or so).
Max
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California Supreme Court and Religious Freedom
by Yerusalyim in.
monday the california supreme court ruled that private religious charities with employees must offer birth control along with their medical prescription benefits, even though doing so violates religious principle.
comments on free exercise?
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Max Divergent
Isn't the individual the one with the right to free exercise? If the church has to allow free exercise for its employees to get BC or not with no financial penealty for working for a church body, isn't that a good thing for personal freedom?